Anders Andersen

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Posts by Anders Andersen

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  152

  If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  a few years after i quit the meetings my mum needed her medical directive signed and witnessed and she asked if i'd do it.

  i was surprised to say the least!.

  i think she was just angling to include me and maybe find some lever to get me involved again.

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  Anders Andersen

  Probably not anymore, but only if no alternatives available.

  That's why I'm not my wife's legal representative in this matter :-(
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  15

  Need advice on fade...

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the elder that was the coordinator of the boe has just left town to attend one of those infamous schools with this wife.

  the view is that he will most likely return to be appointed co. not sure he is going to stick around here for a lot longer.. i am saying this because, despite them knowing he will return when the school is over, they removed him from the coordinator position and appointed someone else.

  it was announced last night that the biggest jerk of the group of elders is now the coordinator of the boe.

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  Anders Andersen

  Elders can only come on shepherding calls if you allow them to.

  So don't allow them to come if you don't need or don't want it.

  It's your mind, your faith, your life, your home.

  If your wife doesn't agree with not having a shepherding call, she could always ask for one for herself if she wants (but I hope not)
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  15

  Changed Will Watchtower You Get Nothing!

  by Hadriel in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as i mentioned last week i'm a covert fade.

  it dawned on me that i had the watchtower bible and tract society in my will.

  i just changed it.

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  Anders Andersen

  @Hadriel,

  Now I'm really curious about your skill set ;-)

  Do your younger kids already know you don't think it's The Truth anymore? If you would tell them, could they just quit if they want (and not be further indoctrinated) while you and your wife fake it a little longer for the sake of extended family? (As in let the children off the sinking ship first?)

  Just throwing thoughts here....(personally I couldn't fake more than a week).
• 
  60

  Those keenly following umbertoecho ARC Brief Update.

  by MightyV8 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i feel it is comfortable to say,.

  yes her arc hearing has come and gone.. yes her hearing was so powerful, her allotted time was tripled!.

  yes, information handed over "mind blowing" response from arc.

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  Anders Andersen

  @UmbertoEcho

  Thank you very much for standing up for the truth, all past, current and future victims of WT policies, and yourself.

  I hope that what you have done does not only change others' life for the better, but also yours.

  Big hug.

  @MightyV8,

  As I understand you have been a great support UE. While I don't know either of you personally, I really appreciate that. Thank you!
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  47

  Since you left, have you become more moral?

  by Coded Logic in

  1. social
  2. family

  respect.

  sympathy.

  gossip.

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  Anders Andersen

  @CodedLogic:

  When I say "moral" I mean the process of critical (and sometimes heuristic) thinking we use to evaluate the actions and behaviors of ourselves and others.

  Since the process of thinking if different for each person, doesn't that imply that morality is subjective?

  Most generally, the metric we use for that evaluation is the well being of sentient creatures.

  For those with a better developed sense of morality, yes.

  For those (blindly) following sets of rules (such as homosexuality is immoral), the set of rules is the metric.

  While the word "moral" may cover a broad range of concepts and ideas - it doesn't then follow that morality is subjective. People use the word "red" in a lot of different ways at different times. But it doesn't then follow that when I say something is "red" its color is entirely arbitrary or subjective.

  For your example of colors, I agree. Someone stating that all cars are red doesn't make green cars red.

  However, different reactions to the same situation can both be viewed as moral or immoral, depending on your viewpoint.

  An interesting example of this is found in Heinz's dilemma.

  A woman was near death from a special kind of cancer. There was one drug that the doctors thought might save her. It was a form of radium that a druggist in the same town had recently discovered. The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to produce. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug. The sick woman's husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money, but he could only get together about $1,000 which is half of what it cost. He told the druggist that his wife was dying and asked him to sell it cheaper or let him pay later. But the druggist said: “No, I discovered the drug and I'm going to make money from it.” So Heinz got desperate and broke into the man's laboratory to steal the drug for his wife. Should Heinz have broken into the laboratory to steal the drug for his wife? Why or why not?

  There are of course multiple reasoning as to why Heinz should or should not steal the medicine (see the article for more background).

  Stage six (universal human ethics): Heinz should steal the medicine, because saving a human life is a more fundamental value than the property rights of another person.
  Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine, because others may need the medicine just as badly, and their lives are equally significant.

  
  

  Apparently depending on a person's viewpoint, an conclusion reached about the morality of (not) stealing the medicine can go both ways, even when contemplating fundamental values such as universal human ethics.

  Hence my conclusion that morality is subjective (especially when compared to assumed absolute morality coming from any God(s) or sacred texts).
  
  
  

  I first read about Heinz's dilemma when still in, and I was kinda shocked that apparently my moral compass was on the lowest level: obedience. Of course that is what you get from being raised to be obedient to parent, elders, GB and God.

  Love this discussion, eager to see your viewpoint
• 
  37

  My First post

  by Simple Minds in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been lurking on this site for 3 years and this is my fist post.

  i would like to thank everyone for helping me wake up.

  i was baptized at 24, married at 25, ms for 18 years mentally in for 24 years but started to wake up 3 years ago doing research to give public talks, and the actions of arrogant and narcissistic brothers and sisters did not help.

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  Anders Andersen

  Welcome!

  Your letter is fine.

  Be sure to include a remark that while you appreciate the effort, you cannot handle meeting with them.

  If they want to meet, politely but firmly refuse every time.

  Note that they don't have any authority over you, and you don't owe them any explanation ;-)

  You can explain, but don't have to...

  Good luck...Wish you wisdom in handling this...
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  47

  Since you left, have you become more moral?

  by Coded Logic in

  1. social
  2. family

  respect.

  sympathy.

  gossip.

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  Anders Andersen

  This is a bit a loaded question...

  What is (im)moral?

  Is a person who rejects the Bible view of sex immoral? Is one who follows the Bible rules moral?

  What about people following opposing sacred texts?

  Morality is subjective.

  
  

  People following a set of rules are not moral, they are simply obeying, possibly without thinking for themselves.

  Interestingly, Lawrence Kohlberg wrote about the stages of moral development.

  These are (according to him):

  Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)

  1. Obedience and punishment orientation

  (How can I avoid punishment?)

  2. Self-interest orientation

  (What's in it for me?)

  (Paying for a benefit)

  Level 2 (Conventional)

  3. Interpersonal accord and conformity

  (Social norms)

  (The good boy/girl attitude)

  4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation(Law and order morality)
  Level 3 (Post-Conventional)5. Social contract orientation6. Universal ethical principles(Principled conscience)
  
  Obeying rules because rules are to obeyed is far less moral than thinking about the ethics of some behaviour.
  
  Example: socializing (JW meetings) or not socializing (shunning family) because a rule says so, is less moral than thinking about the ethics of the behaviour, and the rights every human has (the right to not socialize with someone, the right to socialize with whomever you want).
  
  So regardless of which specific choice is made, it's the method to reach that choice that determines the level of morality.
  
  Have I become more moral?Yes. I no longer do or do not things because of the JW/Bible set of rules, but because I now think about my choices and opinions.
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  35

  Lurkers: A truth is either true, or it isn't. There is no in between.

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  truth is absolute.

  there is no such thing as 2=1 or 1=2.. if one starts out with the equation 2=1, one has already failed.. truth = truth.

  you cannot change whether something is truth or not.. when the organization teaches one thing as a truth (ex.

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  Anders Andersen

  About the absoluteness of truth: many people are mixing 'a truth' and 'an opinion': most people state their opinions as if their were facts, and thus truths.

  E.g. 'this is beautiful' sounds like a facts and a truth, but really means 'This is beautiful to me'.

  Truth is absolute in the sense that it does not change depending on who is talking. Opinions do change depending on who is talking.

  If someone does not agree with an opinion, both parties are (or may be) right. Opinions should never be forced on someone.

  If someone disagrees with a truth, they are plain wrong.

  • God exists.
  • FDS is all anointed.
  • God disapproves of organ transplants

  These are absolute in that they are either true or a false. The facts do not change based on who is talking (but the opinion about it does change).

  So if someone changes their opinion on the truthfulness of these statements, they are either wrong now, or before, or both. The real truth of these statements never changed though.
• 
  32

  Our Letter to Our Family

  by What Now? in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  our families have cut off contact with us for the last several months.

  they found out that we were celebrating holidays with our non-witness family.

  our families were our last tie to the organization, as our former friends stopped associating with us about 3 years ago.

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  Anders Andersen

  Excellent letter.

  If I need to write one (again), I'll be sure to take it as an example.

  Thanks for sharing.

  I hope your family really understands what you wrote...
• 
  13

  What is really your religion?

  by Giordano in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  since we seem to be growing with new members or lurkers here is a repeat of a test about where you are when it comes to religious beliefs or not:.

  here isthe site and how i tested:.

  http://www.findmyreligion.com/ start at number 1 for the religious test.. i just took the test and scored: .

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  Anders Andersen

  James Brown,

  I know for myself I am an atheist ;-)

  • Theist = believes in God(s)
  • A-theist = does not believe in God(s)
  • Anti-theist = believes no God(s) exists and/or fights God(s)

  I think one of the test can result in 'atheist', but I took multiple tests on both sites so I don't know which one :-p